Comments on: Ireland gets innovative with corrective taxes

By: dennis dwyer 9th degree way of the sphere

dennis dwyer 9th degree way of the sphere — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:03:33 +0000

[...] consumers to a substantial degree because gas is a necessity for most and cannot be simply replaced.http://welkerswikinomics.com/blog/2008/02/04/ireland-gets-innovative-with-corrective-taxes/Townhall.com::America founded to be free, not secular::By Dennis …Now, you can fight it, like [...]

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By: Stacy Dwyer

Stacy Dwyer — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:54:37 +0000

This is a perfect example of the government messing with part of the economy, even just a microeconomy, and getting unexpected results. When the government adds heavier taxes or subsidies, many things are effected, not just the intended market. In refrence to this article, the demand for plastic bags not only droped, but plummeted because of the rasied price. This completely ignores the law of supply and demand. When The demand for a good goes down, the price should also go down, but this doesn't happen when politicians get involved, and muck up the natural of order.

The reason why more developed countries, where citizens can afford to care about the environment, place corrective taxes on plastic bags, is becasue of the unseen consequences. Although it sounds like a good idea, messing with the natural workings of the economy is not a good idea. No plastic bags mean people have to use cloth bags. Because the cloth is being used in the bags, it can not be used in clothing or your car's interior, this makes the good, cloth, more scarce, which in effect makes everything else, that uses cloth more expensive. This is just an example of one of the unseen consequences.

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By: andyxu

andyxu — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:26:46 +0000

Contrary to the posts above, I don't think China needs such ridiculous tax.

If there is a market for plastic bags, meaning there is high demand, why a China, which currently value GPD growth slightly more than environmental protection, want to make such a illogical tradeoff?

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By: Jessica C.

Jessica C. — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:59:21 +0000

I think this is a good idea!! As Cassy, said convenienence stores in Taiwan don't give out plastic bags anymore. Although sometimes it gets frustrating, it is a huge step in helping the environment. Wow, people really ARE motivated by money. However, we really don't need so many plastic bags. For example, if I buy a bag of chips, I can simply hold the chips; I really don't need the plastic bag. I think if the government really started charging people for polluting the air or for using extra (unnecessary) napkins in restaurants, the amount of pollution and trash we produce would decrease significantly. I think someone somewhere said that Carrefour here is going to stop providing plastic bags soon too…not sure.

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By: Trevor Sun

Trevor Sun — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:48:59 +0000

I've never been to another place that uses as many plastic bags as China. Worse yet the ones they use here in China suck and it doesn't help that people in China are so used to just throwing things on the ground. I think they need a really big tax for using plastic bags so that people will for sure stop using them.

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By: serenatu

serenatu — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:43:44 +0000

In Taiwan, when you go to a grocery store, you will have to buy one of those reusable bag to put your stuff in. All the convenient stores don't provide plastic bags for free anymore. Some stores in Beijing are also starting to take action regarding this problem too, no more plastic bags, unless you bring your own otherwise it's for sure you need to buy one. It's not simply placing a tax, you "need" to buy one. I think either placing a tax for making people buy the bags is helping the environment, reducing pollution, making the living area a better place to live. cheers.

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By: mina.song

mina.song — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:43:49 +0000

I China absolutely need this tax, too many plastic bags and I think china should start to think about its environments isn't it?

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By: Nicole Wong

Nicole Wong — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:34:12 +0000

It seems as though this idea is spreading around the European area! The supermarkets in Netherlands had the same idea while I was living there, though I'm not so sure the "social taboo" applied there as well. This concept would undoubtedly be harder in reinforce in China though, taking into account the millions of stores there are that use plastic bags. Even those little stores at Yuyuan use them. It is possible, though, that China could eventually get there.

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By: Christina Hu

Christina Hu — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:53:13 +0000

Haha, Ireland is awesome!

But any sort of action comes with consequences, both good and bad. The tax undoubtedly caused many plastic bag manufacturers to experience cuts in wages or even lay-offs. However, the benefits of this tax (no more negative externalities from the use of) probably outweigh the costs (workers affected), so the tax is still, all in all, good for society.

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By: Jeff Ye

Jeff Ye — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:56:10 +0000

Although taxing plastic bags in this case was a successful idea, this may not be so with everything that carries a negative externality. Taxing gas would make the gas more expensive, but it wouldn't decrease the amount of consumption by very much, because the demand for gas is quite inelastic. Some people might switch to public transportation, biking, or even walking, but most consumers would still pay the higher price for their gas.

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By: Alice Su

Alice Su — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:12:37 +0000

So i just wanted to point out that HEY mr. welker you have non-SAS people commenting on this blog too! That's pretty cool. Random, but cool. Well ok I also have something to say about the article itself haha as I read it I was thinking about how, like Jacques, when I went to France a few summers ago, they didn't provide plastic bags at all and we had to carry everything home by hand. It was tedious, but a good move to reduce negative externalities, and it wasn't much of a hassle because we just learned to bring a cloth bag the next time. Taxing gas, on the other hand, would not be so simple because it's not as easy to find a substitute for gas as it is for plastic bags. I think there are other kinds of measures the government could take that would be as effective as taxing plastic bags, however–for example, charging an extra tax on households that use more than a certain amount of electricity in a day, or rewarding schools and firms that recycle a certain amount, etc. Like kevin said, it's hard to get people to be environmentally friendly because they just don't care; once something affects our pocketbooks, however, it becomes entirely different and important.

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By: Jack Lo

Jack Lo — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:24:24 +0000

I'm going to repeat what half the people have already said: Taiwan also charges for plastic bags. I think this policy is actually quite effective. I was just in Taiwan over the Chinese New Year break, and almost no one uses plastic bags anymore. The only plastic bags I have seen are the ones that have been reused over and over.

A gas tax would be ideally beneficial to the environment. But realistically, could we really survive with a gas tax? We are so dependent on gas as an energy source abd it would be very difficult to find a new source of energy in a short amount of time.

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By: Alex Goldman

Alex Goldman — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:36:14 +0000

In Europe as well, people must pay for plastic bags. This isn't a tax in the sense that there is an extra charge on top of the original price, but it does have the same effect – it shifts the demand for plastic bands left. This reduces negative externalities, and leads to a cleaner environment. Gas taxes could be effective, provided that people could easily transition to an alternative energy, such as electricity. However, if a fuel or coal tax was made in a country such as China, many people would go without energy because they have no other means of energy.

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By: Dana Y.

Dana Y. — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:04:36 +0000

As Chanmin mentioned previously, South Korea had administered charging money for plastic bags ever since I was a 1st grader.Whenever I visit Korea in the summer, it is commonplace to see all my relatives bring their own bags to grocery stores. Thus,I believe this particular tax is noteworthy as it not only dramatically lowers the cost and the effort that goes into making plastic bags, but also because this measure is very environmental friendly. However, it is true that it does not get rid of the negative externality. But I believe a gas tax is a bit unrealistic as we are heavily dependent on it. As Jeewon said, there are not many alternatives to gas, unless you have a hybrid car.

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By: Chan Min Park

Chan Min Park — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:52:08 +0000

Everyone seems to be Taiwanese here, so I also want to mention how Korea also charges money for plastic bags. As Kevin Chiu mentioned necessities, I think it is very important in determining whether the product should be taxed to correct the negative externalities. Plastic bags are not really a necessity, and therefore taxing it would drastically decrease its use. However something like gas or cigarettes, taxing the product will not immediately correct the externalities.

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